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- I'm Ashley Tysiac here at Runners World and I'm joined today by Nell Rojas, pro marathoner and run coach and host of Runners World's latest member program, Health &amp; Injuries. The exclusive program takes you through chapters on everything you need to know to start conquering your biggest distance goals. And it's none other than Nell that leads you through each step of that process. So from tips on fueling to implementing workouts, Nell helps you master running longer and I'm so excited to be joined with her today to talk all about it. Thanks again for joining me. - Of course, thanks for having me. - So I guess to start things off, you know, I'll just go ahead and throw out a big question there. Why should someone consider running longer? I know that's kind of a big open-ended question, but, you know, say, hey, I'm a beginning runner that's, you know, trying to push my limits. Or maybe you're a more seasoned runner that wants to start going longer as well. Like why should people be considering long runs or racing longer? - Yeah, I mean, I just think like running is all about growth and running is all about challenges and running is all about progressing and seeing where you can go with it. And you know, whatever your goal is, like your goal could be to be consistent or your goal could be to be faster or complete a marathon or there's so many different goals. But I think a lot of those goals entail getting better at running, you know? And so one of the major components of getting better at running is being able to run longer. And so that means, you know, your heart has to be stronger, your musculoskeletal has to be stronger, your lungs have to be stronger, so many systems in your body. So yeah, I think that's what's cool about running longer. There's so many things that come with it. There's so many cool things you can do if you're able to run longer. If you wanna explore a new city, if you wanna jump in a half marathon, if you want to do, you know, like join your friend, there's just so many reasons. - And you know, I feel like you're kind of like the perfect person to be hosting this program too. I mean, you've been running longer at the highest of levels. You've been, I mean, gosh, top 10, I believe, at Boston Marathon multiple times. You won a USATF 10 Mile Championship, you won the 2019 Grandma's Marathon. So you've seen, you know, just how far you can take it at the highest of levels. You know, from your perspective during your pro career, like what are some of the most important things you've learned about, you know, mastering running long runs or racing longer, you know, throughout your whole career? - I think like the most important thing is that it is like, it's such a process, right? So like you don't go from running like 10 miles a week to running 60 miles a week overnight or even in a year, you know. So I've run it my whole life. You know, in high school I was probably running like 30 to 35 miles a week. In college, I was probably running like 45 to 55 miles a week. After college, I was probably running 55 to 65 miles a week. My first marathon, I was running 65 miles average about a week. And then I started averaging about 75 miles a week for a couple years. And then it was 85. And so it took me literally, to get to 120 miles, took me, you know, 25 years. And so you realize like, you know, I was talking to one of the best marathon runners in the whole world the other day, Connor Mantz. And he was considering bumping up his miles, five, five miles, and it was this big consideration. You know, it was like, oh my God. Like I'm thinking about it, but you know, here are the pros and here are maybe like, you know, and so it's really like, it's not something your body can handle if you just go do it. It's something that you have to intentionally strategize and do slowly and systematically. So that's the biggest thing, you have to be patient, I think, and it's all about consistency. I think that's the biggest takeaway for me. - And I know that's also not, it's easier said than done when it comes to being patient and the consistency and all that. And I think a lot of times too, maybe for, I think about, you know, people that are just now wanting to get into that process of building up their mileage or running longer and finding that consistency and it can feel intimidating. I mean, I can think back to like, I mean when I was in high school, even at the lowest low levels, just trying to run my first 10 mile long run and you know how I felt so kind of nervous about it beforehand, but once I did it, it seemed to open up a full new perspective on like what, you know, I could do as a high school runner and how far I could go. You know, for someone that's kind of in that same boat, like how would you, you know, give them advice on hey, here's how you can overcome some of that intimidation going into this process of building consistency, of running longer. - Yeah, I mean honestly, for the athletes I coach that are just in those stages too, I'm like, look, like just plan on, first of all, like make sure it's systematic so you're not going from eight to 12, 'cause that's going to be intimidating. You know, it's going to be like, whoa, and you know, that's normal. But you know, say it's 12 miles and you've done a couple 10 milers and now you're gonna do 12 and you're a little bit nervous. I'd say "Look, like just set yourself up really well." Plan on being out there for a long time. Have your hydration, have your fuel, let's make a plan for it. Make sure you get early if it's summer, you know, like make sure you're out there early, you're not rushing. Make sure you know the course you're going on. It's not like a new loop. And stop if you get tired. You know, like take breaks. I don't care. That's not about, speed is not in the picture when we're just trying to run longer, all right? So I'm like, "Take breaks." Like if you get tired, like I'd rather you end that run being like, "Oh, I could have done more because I paced myself well, I took breaks and I could have done more and I could have run faster." Like that's the appropriate way to do it, all right? Fuel along the way, that'll help you feel better. It's kind of like if you know you're fueling and hydrating well it's kind of like this comfort blanket. Like okay, I know I'm gonna have the energy enough to do this. I know I'm gonna be hydrated. So yeah, those are my tips. Just like throw away your watch and just be out there for a long time. - And you know, I know you mentioned there are a few different things. You mentioned, you know, fueling and other things like that. And these are all just a variety of different tips and chapters kind of that are in this how to long run longer program that you kind of touch on and guide athletes through. And I think it really puts into perspective that there are so many different little details that go into mastering the long run or mastering running longer races and such like that. You know, for those pushing their limits running longer, like how important is it for them to dial in all these different aspects of running to then be able to accomplish these new distance goals? - Yeah, I mean there is, I was just running a new running program the other day and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like we're talking, there's mindset. Like you have to have, you do, like your mindset is everything when it comes to running. Like you have to be confident, you have to be able to handle adversity 'cause things are gonna go wrong. You're not gonna feel good, something's gonna come up, right? So you have to handle adversity, you have to stay positive. You're gonna have good days and then you're gonna have really bad days and you have to be able to learn from those days. So mindset's huge. Nutrition is huge. And you learn that, you know, it's better to start these habits earlier. So it's better to just know so you don't have to learn the hard way like multiple times like down the road. 'Cause then it's hard to change habits if you just learn what, when you're running like three miles say, and you can like, "Okay, I'm gonna start practicing this." And then you can bring it to the long run when you get there. You know, recovery is huge. Like once again, habits. If you are not practicing recovering and then all of a sudden you're running 12 miles and you're like, I don't like, you think you can still have the same ritual of not like being intentional about recovery, then you're gonna get injured or you're gonna plateau or things are gonna happen. Yeah, gear, gear is really important. You know, the further you go, the more steps you're taking, the more steps you're taking in your shoes, you know, so the more you know, risk of injury, so gear is really important. So yeah, all of this is, it's funny because like there are things that you won't think about until you get to that stage, so you just wanna learn early. - And then, I think too, again, you mentioned so many different things there, recovery, gear, all that stuff. Maybe it's something that you mentioned in the program or not. Like for you, like what do you think is one of maybe those overlooked things that maybe people don't think about at first when they go into mastering that long run or mastering running, racing longer? You know, what's the one thing that maybe people tend to not think about as much? - Oh, maybe like understanding pacing a little bit is really important because if you don't have, you know, this inherent kind of understanding of pacing, from what I've learned coaching people over the years, is that people don't understand paces and they don't understand like what a rate of, so like a two of rate of perceived exertion on a scale of rate of perceived exertion, like what a two is, you know, or what a four is or how long they could hold a certain pace or that there's no money in the bank. You know, like if you're gonna run a marathon or half marathon and you're running for two plus hours and you're like, "Okay, well I have the most energy, the first half of the marathon or the first half of the half marathon, so I'm gonna like use that energy. I'm gonna, you know, take advantage of it and then I can like slow down if I have to." And it's like, well no, that's not actually how it works. You know, so there's like little things like that, like pacing, I think, is huge. - So then how do you think, you know, from your perspective as a run coach and you know, a runner yourself, like how do you suggest someone kind of dial in, learn how to pace properly, especially when you know you're going on a long run or racing a marathon? - Yeah, I mean I think a lot of times it's like if we're talking just aerobic easy pace, like you have to be able to hold a conversation. Like if you're with a friend or if you're not with a friend, like maybe try like singing a little bit and seeing if you can do that. Like if you have to stop, it might be too fast. And you know, just of understanding like what that pace looks like and maybe like trying to practice what pace can I run and still finish strong, like the last third of it? So if I have an athlete and they're like, you know, they're like, "Yeah, that run felt good." I'm like, "Okay, great. Like could you have gone faster?" Maybe that's a question I would've asked after a long run for a new person. Could you have gone faster? And they're like, "Mm-mm, yeah, I think I could have gone faster." I'm like, "Great, okay, here's what we're gonna do. Next long run, you're gonna start at that pace. You're gonna bring it down a little. So like for the first third you'll start at that pace. For the second third, I'm gonna have you bring it down maybe a little bit and for the last third, you're gonna bring it down a little bit more and you see what happens." And if they can't do that, you're like, "Well, you know, maybe you are going too fast." You know, like, so like, 'cause you want like even and easy pace, it's a range, right? Like, for me, an easy pace is like a two minute range. Like I'll run easy anywhere from like seven flat pace, maybe 6:45 pace if I'm in really good shape to like 8:30 pace, right? So that's like almost two minutes. So there's a range and you don't really want, like, you wanna be able to like be all over this range. And so you wanna be able to go a little bit faster and still be in that range and maybe go a little bit slower and still be in that range. So you wanna be able to like just like know your ranges. - Makes a lot of sense to me. You know, you talk a little bit about pacing. I know a little bit earlier you talked about the mental aspect of running longer and how it can be challenging and you know, it's kind of hard to have that, at first, to have that mindset of being able to push your body perhaps to run a distance maybe you've never done before or you know, you're continuing to work up that mileage. For you, like what do you maybe tell your athletes or tell yourself when you're running longer to get through some of those mental barriers that may arise? - You know, a lot of times, a couple things, like if you're running longer than you've ever run and it's hard, like that's when you know you're growing, right? That's when you know you're getting stimulus you've never gotten. That's when you know you're getting the most bang for your buck. And so it's like, let's just like almost go into this, like go into this like expecting it to be hard and it's not gonna be like so hard that you can't finish. It's gonna be like the right kind of hard, you know, it should be like right in the good kind of zone hard where it's like, "Okay, that was hard, but I could do it and I felt good." And then so like enjoy, like look forward to the challenge. And then there's other times where, you know, I'm experienced at running longer. Even a marathon, when I'm racing or when I'm doing like a long run, I'll tell my athletes all the time, "Like you're gonna go through lows and you're gonna go through highs." So when you're running and you're going through that low, just like hang on, keep your rhythm. Just like try to stay focused because more likely than not, you will come out of it a lot of the times. Like your body will like kinda like readjust, adapt, and then like you'll be like, "Okay, I feel better now." - And then I think, you know, for someone that, you know, looks at Health &amp; Injuries and decides to, you know, go through all the chapters and stuff like that, like, you know, obviously you have a different perspective. As a host I got to look at it from watching it, you know, like any other viewer would. But for someone that goes through that program with you, like what do you think are some of the key takeaways that, you know, broader scale that they can take from it and hopefully put into practice for their own running? - Yeah, I would say, you know, like try to vary it up. Like running longer, like the stimulus to be able to run longer doesn't just come from like running a little bit longer each time, right? It'll come like even like, if you like, you know, if you throw a little bit of like speed work in there and we're talking just a little bit of speed work or a little bit of a progression in a run, like a shorter run, like that's gonna force your body to make adaptions to have more mitochondria, to have more capillary density to those muscles, for more oxygen to get to those muscles so that you can run longer. So do the hills, you know, add in some hills, add in some speed, add in easy runs, easy short runs, easy long runs. And I think all of that will keep your body like happy and it'll keep it mentally more stimulating and so that's what I take from it. - And then I also think too, you know, our Health &amp; Injuries program is part of a whole collection of different member programs that we have helping you, you know, reach whatever your, you know, biggest running goal is, to be quite frank. I mean there's one on how to start running, there's some on, you know, how to master the marathon, which I know you hosted with us as well. We even have one on guided strength training, which I know, you know, as a run coach and a runner, you're a big proponent of runners lifting and staying strong in the weight room as well. When you combine all those together, you know, say someone you know wants to, you know, use the Health &amp; Injuries program, but also, you know, hey, I wanna figure out how I can master the 5K and use our Master the 5K program. I guess in a way, like I guess my question is like how do all those different programs and how does all that kind of combine together to work on someone's, you know, whole running journey as a whole? - Yeah, I mean honestly like a lot of those programs, you know, they all contain mindset, nutrition, gear, you know, the recovery, that's all kind of like very similar with specialties or with, you know, focusing on certain things. But I really think like, you know, you can tackle whatever you wanna tackle. You know, like so I think if you, for example, you're like, "Okay, I do, I wanna learn how to run longer, so I'm gonna do that program right now." And you complete that program and you're like, "Wow, that was awesome. Like I, I did run longer." And now you're like, "Okay, like now I wanna work on my 5K speed. I wanna work on my speed work because like maybe now that I can run longer, I can incorporate speed." So I think it is really valuable and really good, like you can learn so much in all of these and then you can learn how to like cycle through these. Because even as a marathoner, like I'm not only focusing on marathons all year round. I have two marathon cycles, one in the spring, one in the fall, and then in the middle, I'm focusing on my speed work. Whether it's, sometimes I'm like, I need to dial in on my 5K pace because I really wanna get faster so I can really differentiate my 5K pace from my marathon pace. Sometimes I'm like, "All right, let's hit a fast half marathon." So I'm in a half marathon training cycle. You know, so I think it's really good to work on both or everything - Makes a lot of sense. And then, you know, I think kind of to wrap things up, but I think my last question is really how can using the Health &amp; Injuries program, I keep thinking about like, you know, reflecting on my own running journey and how like, you know, just sometimes just one long run can, you know, open your eyes to possibilities of just what you can do in running. So how do you hope that people can almost have that same sort of effect when, you know, they go through the program and start putting some of this stuff into practice and really shaping their running journey? - Yeah, I mean I think it does. You know, marathons are super fulfilling and they're amazing and you know, I think training for one is a great experience and I think even if you're a one and done-er, that's fine. But it does, it's like okay, it gives people like the courage and confidence to train for a marathon or even you could train for, you know, a 50K or 50 miler. And I think it just kind of opens up the running world. - Awesome. Well thank you, Nell, so much for joining me today to talk about Health &amp; Injuries. And be sure to head to runnersworld.com to check out the program for yourself and our full collection of membership programs. - Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Nell Rojas, host of Runner's World's Health &amp; Injuries program, joins us to discuss the program and offer additional key tips you can use to reach your distance running goals.

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